Barbara meets Conchita - man? Mrs? Sausage!
It was much more than showmanship when Tom Neuwirth decided to become Conchita Wurst. The bearded diva talked to Barbara about role models, polarization, clichés and taboos.
Barbara SchönebergerConchita, you're not just a man, you're a woman as well. Which one of you has an easier time?
Conchita: Interesting question. As a gay man, who still has a hard time socially, I have created a heterosexual, conservative woman who, well, happens to have a beard. I've found that there have been situations where I've been favored over women because I'm still a white man. Strange enough, because everything about me works to fit in no drawer.
And that does not work?
Somehow not. I really want to break out of all stereotypes. In the end, I'm just a Catholic Colombian.
Because of the public interest in your appearance, you had to think a lot about gender roles.
Not you?
No, I've been rocking for a long time without defining my wifehood for myself. It was only later in my career that I reflected on what that meant to me.
How are you as a woman?
Unobserved, and I feel that as a great luck. I do not politicize, I do not cope with strategies, who or how I want to be. I have somehow managed to achieve maximum authenticity for myself in my public role as a woman. This is the most exhausting case.
Tough is good, but not the rule. We are both in jobs that are still dominated by men. And not just these professions.
That's true. I moderate many corporate events, and wherever I go, the boardrooms are full of men. I always wonder where those hide those women who supposedly work in leadership positions. There are only a few ? and if they exist, they are paraded like a cow with two heads.
I know. They will be presented to you separately. And sometimes you fall for it too.
Exactly! I have to forbid myself to ask the moderator such stupid questions as: How do you feel as the only woman on the board?
The ridge on which you walk is very narrow. Actually, you want to help them in their solitary position. In the process, this over-emphasis may be the opposite.
I would not like to speak to womanhood at all. But would not that be wrong too? Because it is true that women lead differently. And to sweep that under the carpet would be too bad.
It's probably wrong how you do it. People are quickly offended by everything. Sometimes I ask myself, what else am I allowed to say without suffering a shitstorm?
I think we are sliding into a total exaggerated political correctness. There was a time when politicians came before the people and with "Dear Voters"? responded. Today, it's always the "loving voters". I feel like a voter, not a voter. And that is now working on gender-neutral terms, I find fundamentally wrong. There are completely different problems. That a woman earns less than a man, for example.
And we did not go to the entertainment industry to be politically correct. Entertainment is about polarization and breaking taboos.
And exaggerated clichés, even extremely feminine. When we all meet in the middle, it becomes extremely unpleasant. Take you: you polarize by breaking the gender line, and that's almost political. Did you want that?
No, I just felt like being a bearded woman, then everything else came. I used to be strict when people asked me if I was a he or a you. In the role I really wanted to be perceived as a woman. But I'm getting older and wiser, too, and I find out that it's no longer important to me what I represent when I go on stage as Conchita.
And suddenly you performed in front of the UN. Were you overwhelmed with the political role that you suddenly got pushed over?
At least I did not pick it. Actually, I just wanted to sing. But this way of speaking to people who can really make a difference? I could not miss that. And my message is deep inside me. It also benefits me when I say aloud that equality must happen in every respect.
But you had to grow into very big shoes pretty fast.
Did not feel that way for me. Or maybe I'm a better actor than I always thought. And I was inspired by strong women.
For example?
The first diva I met was my grandmother. Then is my mom there? less diva, but I love everything. All the role models that followed were women: Shirley Bassey, Evita Perón, Celine Dion, Frida Kahlo.Women who opposed the patriarchy and did their own thing. That's why I wanted to portray a woman on stage as well: I saw her in more strength.
I also think we can do more than men. This is already going on at home: While such a man takes a shower in the morning and sees through his shirts, the woman has twice loaded and unloaded the washing machine and tidied the apartment. On the one hand, that makes me angry because it manifests the roles. On the other hand, we can just do it. And not men. And then I feel fine with it again. Women get things better regulated.
What men do not necessarily appreciate.
But I know it. And it gives me strength.
But is not one of the big problems just the male disrespect of what women do?
Oh. A marriage does not consist in the fact that in the evening each other is applauded for the merits of the day. Since you have a lot to get out of yourself. And I do not have to meet with my girlfriends three times a week and drink Prosecco complaining about how bad the men are. Are not they?
Which is very common. In the past, women have complained significantly less.
Right! And where you talked about role models earlier: I strongly orientate myself on the generation of my mother and mother-in-law. I know a lot of great women in their 70s who are doing a great deal right. Those emancipate themselves after many years of marriage and find their thing. Since I've dealt with this generation, I'm not afraid of my old age, because I know: At 70, you can still be fully alive.
Do you already have plans for this time?
I do not even have plans for tonight. I never plan something. Everything I do happens from the gut, because I know that it always happens differently than I think anyway. I think about nothing, especially not about myself.
You did it well. I am constantly in my head. That is incredibly exhausting. Firstly, I'm not my biggest fan, and secondly, I love nothing more than to take myself apart. And I'm stressing myself. When I have a gig on TV, I ask myself two weeks in advance how to deliver well.
I'm different. When I sing a duet with Rolando Villazón, I listen to the piece ten minutes before that it is possible. I get it pretty good, but I wonder: How good could I be if I prepare myself properly?
Do you think that the way you are a woman helps you in your job?
I never relied on it. But for the adrenalin of the spontaneous helps me through these situations. From the beginning, I had the will to be different from what people think about me.
How do you mean?
I used to play over the pretty blonde with the big breasts. Always wore black turtlenecks and not very good-looking, but intellectual friends. I never wanted to be a girlie because I knew that from what I look like, the temptation for others to see that is great. And that's the worst thing for me with all right to self-determination: when women go into a female role. And in the dependence on men.
But you are also in a quite comfortable situation.
That's true. I never had the feeling that I was at a disadvantage because of my wifehood or that I had worse chances. But that's not the norm.
That's true. Male egos can be very persistent, they do not want to accept that women also have skills.
I often experience this with taxi drivers. If I say: You can drive right here, then we are faster, they say: Nope. I will not do this. The tendency to be told something about women is not pronounced in every man.
Absurd. When I think about it more, I first realize how miserable many men are.
That's why I do not think about it. But I'm also coated with Teflon, I often do not notice when someone drives me to the cart, because I unswervingly pull my thing through. You have to make an effort to meet me. The other way round it works better.
How do you mean?
When I started doing sports and getting a little thinner, I was taken aback by women. It was as if I had said goodbye to a community of solidarity that I did not realize existed.
Madonna got it straight to the point. She said: You have to be sexy as a woman, but not so sexy that you intimidate men. And you can be beautiful too, but not so beautiful that other women hate you.
Hm. Hillary Clinton has shown much hatred. But not because of her beauty.
Do you think Madonna would have won if she had taken on Trump?
I do not think so. Probably the sex was a problem with Hillary, and Madonna has as well known. There are still too many people who do not want to be ruled by a woman. Women too.
There is something on that. A politician in Austria once said that she was told on the street during the election campaign: I think her policy is good, but I can not choose you.You have three children. Who will take care of that?
Is similar to me. That division of labor is possible and normal in a relationship today does not seem to have arrived everywhere.
That being said, what is important to you about a man?
I want a man bigger and stronger than me. I do not want anyone whose jeans are too small for me. And yes, I admit: I want a hero. One who carries me out of the house when it burns. And who asks me in the evening, how was my day. Who earns his money independently and takes care of the children. We are the first generation that wants everything.
The question then arises: For whom is feminism actually more exhausting?
I think it is very stressful for both sides. But the men have deteriorated significantly. In the emancipated relationship, the man has to give up privileges.
Well, yes, but he also gains something. More time with the children, for example, who used to grow up with their dad very often.
This is true. And that's why men need a lobby, too, because we do not fool ourselves: fathers on parental leave buried all their career opportunities today. But this will change.
Do you mean? How will it be in ten years?
We are all the same.
Oh no! Please do not!
