sex
May 2, 2024

Sadomasochism: "We take what we need"

The interview is an excerpt from the book "Lust auf Schmerz" by Cornelia Jönsson (Schwarzkopf & Schwarzkopf)

Since when do you see yourself as an SMerin? I would never have called it that before, but my sexual appetite has always been demanding. I wanted to be able to take what I wanted. I wanted that power, and I always did. Even as a child, I wanted to hit other kids on the butt and I also wanted to determine what is played and who to which part.

Since when have you used the term "sadomasochism" to name your sexuality? That there is SM, I knew early on. And I had such an uncomfortable feeling that it could have something to do with me, but I successfully pushed it away.

My first love relationship was with a classmate. I was ashamed of her for this rough thing, which sometimes came over me. She was very gentle herself and she expected that from me too. I then projected my dominant fantasies on men - I was also an active member of Terre des Femmes, which I still am. Being brutal towards men seemed self-confident. Make the perpetrators victims and such. Violence against women was simply bad.

Being brutal towards men seemed self-confident.

At the beginning of my twenties, I met a fellow student who really liked my brutality. He liked to fight and lose with me. Or when I tickled him very doll or pinched in his nipples. He was a real gentleman - stop doors, give fire, read my wishes from the eyes ... On my birthday, he handed me a bunch of flowers on his knees, that was pretty sexy.

He eventually started by saying that the SM was what we were doing. I did not want to know anything about that because I was with Terre des Femmes and I was looking after illegal immigrants and so - I said that would not be right, SM had something to do with beatings. Then hit me, he answered. I asked for time to think, had no sex with him for a few weeks and then read books he gave me. And I liked that, too, which one from the queer corner - well, then we started it and it felt damn cool. But my guilty conscience was still there. That only became better when we separated for other reasons and I moved to Berlin. First of all, I just wanted to get away, also because of him, and secondly, I had just finished my studies anyway. And then Berlin seemed to me to be very attractive, because both in terms of queerness and for sadomasochist here just a lot is offered.

And why do not you have a guilty conscience today? Because I really went to the scene a lot in Berlin, there are all sorts of things here, and I noticed, through the many conversations and also by observing that this really has nothing to do with politics, to be dominant, including women across from. Or that it's rather political, but that you belong together, tops and bottoms, that we are all just sadomasochists and that this is something very political, but in a positive, so in the left way.

What do you mean by "political"? We live and discover our own sexuality, especially as women, no matter if we play up or down - we take what we need without being ashamed of it. We try to locate and then communicate our own needs, not as demands, but simply as information, and then we see how we come together.

We pay close attention to each other's needs.

In the same way, we try to listen attentively to another and also to ourselves and to give the other as much of what he wants without endangering ourselves. We are very careful to take each other's needs seriously, as well as their fears, their vulnerabilities, treat each other with respect and esteem, see others as human beings, and not degrade them to wishfulness. We talk a lot with each other, reflect, try to say what the other's behavior does to us, without blaming it. I think that the way we treat each other, you should generally deal with each other in the social space, if you want something to change.

Is it really the case that all the SMers talk so much to each other and treat each other so considerately? Is not there sexual, emotional or even economic exploitation among SMers? Of course, many do it differently. But only because some SMers do not see the possibilities of what they are doing does not lose their potential.

You said earlier that you now dare to dominate women without guilty conscience - what does SM have to do with being queer for you? Of course, there is a big heterosexual scene where queerness hardly takes place. But in my eyes that has a lot to do with each other, and especially in Berlin, there is already a lesbian-SMige or gay-SMige scene.

It starts with the fact that we as SMers anyway have a lifestyle that does not necessarily fit into the classic drawers. That's why theoretically there is a good room for things that can not be so clearly defined. For example, I'm bisexual, so at least everyone used to have a problem. One was not hetero, the other not lesbian enough. In the SM scene, I feel comfortable with my being bi. But there are also lesbians who want to have nothing with bi-women, and heterosexuals who do not take you seriously.

So you believe that ambiguous sexual identities are in good hands in the sadomasochistic area? Yes, that is often played in the SM area. Transvestism is a popular game. Whereby we ironically exaggerate classical gender roles and take pleasure in them.

What is the pleasure of it? I honestly can not say it. It's like punching or kissing or anything else. You do not know why it kicks one. You can only feel that it is so.

Does SM have sexist aspects? Safe in some cases. But I think it's very important in feminist discourse and action to get away from this PorNo story that used to exist. Of course, porn and sex and sex with men are not at all bad and misogynist. It's not about depriving us of pornography, it's about conquering it for ourselves. In the past, women here were merely toys of male eroticism, as is still the case in many countries today.

We also think it's great to be erotically brutal.

Then the women resisted saying that they do not want to be sexualized. And certainly not if this sexualization has anything violent. Violent is only the male sexuality, the female is tender. That's nonsense, of course. Today we are finally at the point where we can easily stand by ourselves to our sexuality, without somehow taking care of the men, either to please them or to emancipate ourselves from them. Today we do what we enjoy and stand by it. And of course, we also like naked women's bodies and we just sometimes find it cool to be erotically brutal, even to a woman. That's perfectly fine if she so wishes and I wish so. We owe this to the queer and sadomasochistic culture that it is today.

How are you currently living SM? I have a girlfriend and we switch. Originally, I beat her - she was the first woman I had so intense with. After a while she wanted to swap, to try. She liked that so much that she wanted it more often.

I think that's very good too, but if I can choose, I prefer the other one. Because I'm not a good bottom, I think. I'm really cowardly, I do not like being beaten, I have a lot of taboos - you can not do much with me. But my respect for Bottoms has grown tremendously since we switched. And her tops also because she sees how exhausting and demanding that is.

For a few weeks now, there's a man we've cobbled together a few times, you and me. That's really good, I hope the three of us can get that and discover a lot together.

Do you openly deal with your inclination? Yes, that is part of the political concept that I associate with it. I think it's important to have tolerance and respect for different ways of life, as long as they do not harm anyone. That everyone should always find the same good, that puts us under tremendous pressure.

I also find it important that sexuality is generally upgraded, that we do not keep on pretending that this is just an unimportant thing that sometimes makes couples fall asleep. Because that's not true. And it makes us sick, if we persuade ourselves. I think it's important to develop a language, a discourse about sex. One takes possession of things by learning to speak about them, to reflect them in language, to analyze them, to communicate them, or even to name them at all. A society can not be healthy if it is helpless and speechless.

And how does your environment react? There were one or two women in the political environment who had reacted so badly that they find it wrong - as if desire could be right or wrong. I am avoiding the two now. My parents did not say anything else, we do not talk much about such intimate things. My brother thinks it all totally weird, he lives very differently, with children and wife and house and so on. But we talked about it and we accept each other. Yes, and my friends have responded positively.

Has anything changed in your everyday life or your professional life? I do not separate that so much, for me it's all one. Of course I spend a lot of time in sadomasochistic contexts, which are missing elsewhere. I was more involved in the left scene in Leipzig than here in Berlin.

I am more open through SM and closer to myself.

I do my PhD on religious stagings of femininity in the broadest sense - and of course my thinking about sadomasochism flows in, as well as in my work with illegal immigrants, because the topic of "self-determined sexuality" or even their absence is important. I also try to teach women with gross abusive experiences that sex can be positive for women, too, so they do not give up completely. Yes, and I have the impression that I'm more open, so see things from different angles, understand that things are usually not unique or monochrome, and that I am closer to myself.

So have you developed positively since you openly live SM? Yes, yes. Openness is always good. Of course that's also very exhausting and time consuming, I do not think that Vanillas have so many discussions about sex with their sex partners, and then again and again and arguing and very bad feelings. Or that they spend so much time shopping for clothes and sex toys.

Does SM have anything to do with childhood memories for you? Something is there, I can feel that, but I do not know about that yet, because I have to come up with it later.

Do you feel discriminated against as an SMerin? I feel discriminated against as a woman who is committed and intensely engaged in sex. And yes, in certain professional contexts, I would certainly get in trouble because of my bias, that is, I can not do many things.

What do you want for your sadomasochistic future? If it stays that way, it's pretty good. And then of course I hope to get to know many new, exciting people, to make touching contacts, to always be creative, to discover something new ...

Do SMers always have to discover something new? I believe that there is already a strong need for new kicks. Maybe that will fade with time.

From Bottoms to Tops: Little Sadomaso Glossary

When people from the SM scene talk, outsiders often only understand the station. Here are some common terms from the Sadomaso language.

24/7: In this particular form of SM relationship, partners do not limit their power relations to sex. This means that in everyday life one person dominates the other (24/7 means "24 hours a day, 7 days a week").

Crash: An erotic game that does not go as planned and becomes unpleasant for at least one of the participants.

BDSM: Collective term for sadomasochistic variants. The abbreviation stands for Bondage & Discipline, Dominance & Submission, Sadism & Masochism.

Bondage: Bondage, for example with chains, ropes or handcuffs.

bottom: The person who takes the passive, submissive role in sex or in a relationship.

Femdom: SM constellation in which the woman plays the dominant role (by female domination). Conversely, one speaks of Maledom.

Petplay: A sexual role play in which one of the partners (mostly the submissive part) takes on the role of an animal.

SafeWord: An agreed codeword that allows a partner to stop a game immediately if something goes wrong.

Spanking: Beatings on the buttocks, with the hand or objects.

Switch: SMers who are not set on a role in sex games and depending on the mood or partner take over the submissive or the dominant part.

Top: The person who takes the active, dominant role in sex or relationship. The right verb is topping.

Vanilla's: People who have sex without SM practices.