Clothes make you happy? Barbara chats with Iris Berben
Barbara: Iris, when it was clear that fashion is the main topic of this issue, I wanted you to be a conversation partner. In fact, you were no alternative for me.
Iris: Huh? I mean: nice, but ... why?
Because you, unbelievable and unfeigned, are my absolute style icon. I even have that in writing. I have already mentioned you once in a column.
Barbara: That I often sat at events in twinkling corsage and a lot of work was needed to even look reasonably good. And then I discover you two rows in front of me in a perfect spaghetti straps dress, just like that. You're my idol because you're on the other end of the women's scale than me.
Which is very ...
Wait, I'm not done yet with the adulation. You're such a guy, a subway might go by and blow up your dress, and it would never be cheap, never offensive? but great from top to bottom.
Uh ... thanks.
You're welcome. Have you always been like this? Stylish to the point and fashionable down to the last detail?
I think I interpret that differently. ?Stylish? is a condition that I do not associate with me. That would mean that I always look very carefully, what is the latest cry.
Do not you?
I do not. My understanding of fashion developed in London in the 1960s. I flew from school more often, it was pretty krawallig on it. And I was in London a lot of times. The attitude to life at that time was: the main thing to be different than anything else. That was also true in fashion, especially in Carnaby Street.
What was this other thing you wanted to set off from?
I am born in 1950, a postwar child, born in the gray, messed up Germany. There were no colors. Everything was stiff, conservative, uninspired, the women wore beige and gray. They were virtually invisible, they disappeared in the non-colors.
And then came London and the hippie time. Flower power and such.
I know Flower Power is being laughed at today. But it was important for us, it was sensational, it broke something. Suddenly, color was involved. Women were wearing colorful clothes. And it was even more, because it turned into an attitude to life. Be different. Feeling unadjusted.
England was not a cheap place then as it was today.
This is true. I worked and saved my job, but that was not enough for my needs. Unfortunately, I have to admit: I just stole some clothes in Carnaby Street.
I did not dare to do that at that age. Now I would do it. But that is no longer possible today.
But in the 60s it almost had a certain moral legitimacy. Shoplifting was officially part of the fight against the establishment.
What else have you done?
I remember how we blew up parties in Hamburg. With little resources. We were wearing black rollis and what we call leggings today. Having donated dog collars, leopard skins threw us over and crawled on parties on all fours to which we were not invited. At that time it was still possible to attract social attention.
How great! And I understood: For you, fashion was initially about something completely different than looking good.
Yes. To freedom. And honestly, that's almost always the most important thing for me. I'm in uniform for the uniform in fashion. Somehow, everyone always wants to wear the same. For example, these jeans with big holes at knee height ...
What's up with them?
I look at the girls of 16, 17 years and think: Looks nice. And then I see the same jeans on women well over 40. It's as if they had not gone through any development.
There are many who can not manage this transition. To recognize the difference between fashionable and what suits you. How you do that?
I try to orient myself. And what I find doing then to make my own. It will not be easier. Scrolling through fashion magazines often depressed me.
Why this?
Because I see pretty things that are unusual. Or something provocative. And then think: Oh no. I am 67.
But ...
I know exactly what you want to say: you could still.
Right. You always hear that, right?
Exactly. And then I say: I do not want to.
Understand. Because you say something with fashion. Because fashion belongs in certain phases of life.
And one more thing: fashion is always culture too. She tells a lot about our time. For example, in films, clothing is part of the role, the figure. And for evening events there are nice rules, that too is culture. The word "dress code"? does not come by chance. It has a meaning.
Well, not always here in Berlin.
Right. Has it ever happened that in an invitation? Dress? code evening dress? I stood by and had to read the next day in the newspaper: "As always overdressed.
Do you take this nicely meant advice seriously?
No, because that also has to do with respect and courtesy.If someone invites me and wants to have it like that? on what basis should I counter that?
But I have the feeling that fashion is no longer such a distinguishing feature today as it used to be. You used them to show that you did not belong. Today you use them to show that you belong.
There is something on that. But apart from such official invitations: I think it's great, what is so street style.
But that's Berlin too. You can wear what you want here and it does not interest you. This does not work so well in other German cities.
Yes, this freedom has a good bottom here. And it has also gotten better for women in general. You are suddenly well dressed with sneakers. Fashion has become more comfortable, suitable for everyday use. And more respectful of working women who need to be out all day.
Well, men did not have it easy in the 18th century, with terrible materials and uncomfortable cuts. But women were actually fought to keep them in check in the truest sense of the word.
The corset, though. A beautiful symbol of how women used to breathe in every relationship, the space for their own development.
And I still wear it. A bit of suppression in satin, which I saved in the third millennium to keep me upright.
Very upright, I want to say. That's okay with you. Otherwise nothing else tames you and nobody.
Do you sometimes wear ...?
Clear! I also wear belly and buttocks.
Even the berries!
Many do not even know what material we work with.
For example, cycling shorts with straps, which not only shape buttocks and thighs, but also help out at the top. And if you tell people that ...
... is the next question ...
Is not that awfully uncomfortable ??
And then we say ...
Both: JAAAAAAAAA!
And how often can not people guess what kind of shoes I'm on stage for. But really, I did not go to show business to wear comfortable clothes.
Well, with the high heels I have largely stopped.
That's obviously true. For the record: Mrs. Berben contributes to the conversation Schlappen!
And that makes me trendy. I also know colleagues who trudge in rubber boots for the German Film Award.
I do not think so. You?
Maybe when it was time to dress up for something. But today? No. What should they be against? They should rather draw from the vast fund that fashion offers today.
But it does not reliably protect us from faux pas. Did you have one?
Just in the spring, at the Berlinale. I wore a black top with subtle transparent stripes. I thought: Because a skin-colored bra fits quite well. And at home everything looked really good too. Unfortunately I had forgotten only the flashing lights on the red carpet.
Oh God. I sense what is coming, enlightenment!
Exactly: In the photos it looked like I was naked under the top. Everyone was brave. And that's the standard vocabulary in interviews anyway at my age anyway. For example: Mrs Berben, do you still have the courage to wear sleeveless dresses?
Did you?
Sure, of course! Can it be that this is seen critically in Germany. But go to Italian villages, where women at the age of 60, 70 years let their arms blow up quite naturally. They do not give a shit if anyone cares. They are female and self-confident and live it out. I have learned from them and freed myself from such constraints.
That these constraints exist! You have been voted the most beautiful woman in Germany 15 times in a row?
Whoever makes such a nonsense for election.
It does not matter. What I want to say: You are actually in a position where you could pass all the accusations, all unfavorable press photos anywhere else.
You also. And?
Sometimes that works. When I'm comfortable with what I'm wearing. If I then see a photo of me on which I find myself stupid, the photographer was to blame. But if I have a dress that has weaknesses or I have weaknesses in the dress? No, then I'm not so confident. I have to admit that.
You see. At the end of the day we are normal women. With strengths and weaknesses, with good and bad days.
To get back to the beginning: I really only see your strengths. You look great even in Transparent. And everything is still a tick more beautiful and elegant than others.
There is also a lot of rock? N? Roll in me. I run around in jeans and leather jacket so often. But nobody sees that.
But fits you too. Because you're a perfect playing surface where everything goes. That's different with me. It took me a long time to realize that I'm not brilliant at all. And until I stop listening to people who have no idea.
And what are you doing now with all the shiny clothes?
My cellar is full of many things that I have acquired over the years and no longer wear in life.
Mine too. There are historical evening dresses, 40 years old.And you know something: I'm wearing a few of them now and reap beautiful successes. Everything will come back someday.
