"Tussikratie": Are we exaggerating with feminism?
"Women can not do anything wrong today and men can not do anything right." With this thesis, Theresa Bäuerlein and Friederike Knüpling challenge the women's supporters in Germany. In their new book "Tussikratie" the authors describe why women often stand in the way of the gender debate today. ChroniquesDuVasteMonde editor Michèle Rothenberg spoke with them about women as saviors of the world, discourse police and a missing men's movement.
The authors: Theresa Bäuerlein, 33, is a freelance journalist and author living in Berlin. Friederike Knüpling, 32, is a PhD student at Stanford University in California.
In your book you write: "Women in Germany have never had such a good reputation as they have today." That's good news. Why do not you treat that to women?
Theresa Bäuerlein: It's not that we do not treat the women, we are some of them ourselves. We criticize that women today are portrayed either as saviors of the world or as poor victims oppressed by men. This is a contradiction that is confusing and unpleasant. The two extremes obscure the view of how the world really is.
But is not it typical for a transitional period that a society oscillates between extremes? In many areas, women are still disadvantaged, while some are already changing the world.
Theresa Bäuerlein: Of course we are in a transitional period. But I do not take it for granted that this time will lead to an equal society. At the moment, it looks like it's about turning the tables. According to the motto 'The men screwed it up, now the women have to fix it.'
Friederike Knüpling: We believe that the whole equality debate does not do the women good. It does not give them a 'wedding in the world history of women' as it is often described. It overwhelms many women that they are constantly portrayed as the ones who finally overthrow the men. It is a difficult world in which we live, and the problems we have must solve men and women together.
"Tussikratie", 320 pages, Heyne Verlag, 16,99 Euro
And the "chick" in your book is the one who leads the debate the loudest?
Theresa Bäuerlein: The 'Tussi' is for us not a specific person, but an inner attitude that many have today, both women and men. They attach to each topic the perspective of women's disadvantage. Even if other questions were more important.
Friederike Knüpling: In this way, gender roles are cemented rather than dissolved. Theresa and I have noticed that in recent years, because of the many contributions to the women's issue, we have suddenly felt much more 'than women' than we used to. But that often hinders us. It can take away the energy that is in individual goals. Instead, you see yourself as one of those who are inevitably victims of discrimination, even if they may not even feel it.
But is not the chitcha attitude just an extreme of the debate? You also describe many thoughtful voices in the book.
Theresa Bäuerlein: Yes, but it is true that only certain opinions are allowed. We also call this 'Disciplinary Police'. Anyone who dares to paint a different picture of a woman, of someone who may not want a leadership position or a job in a men's business, will be punished. We are also bothered by the peer pressure. If a woman does not want children or does not automatically hit the mothers' side, she will be attacked. As if all women wanted or think the same thing. An open discussion looks different.
So they want less black and white in the debate. But if women only argue in shades of gray - does anyone else listen to them?
Friederike Knüpling: Of course you also have to be exaggerated and radical. But then you have to take a step back and look at how things can go on and what our goal is. We need a real exchange of views. A dispute in which new options for action can be found.
They say, "Men can only do everything wrong today." Are you sorry for the men?
Friederike Knüpling: I think that men are as limited by role models as women are. Men, for example, seem to have a much harder time working part-time and more caring for the family.It often seems to me that women have more opportunities to choose, including what they want to experience, what they feel and articulate. This is already evident in fashion. Women can express themselves much more, wear a suit today and a floral dress tomorrow. The fashion for men is much more one-sided.
Theresa Bäuerlein: I feel sorry for the men because they have not had a real men's movement so far. And apparently, they do not need that. There are a few groups that speak out, but this is a furious protest that does not do much. It's rarely about what men really want. It starts with the children: The girls are taught to demand everything they want. And we teach the boy to take back. We suggest that you choose jobs such as educators or caregivers, which girls are well advised against. And yet, at the end of the house, the man who appears with home-baked cake in the daycare, smiled at. We all have to question our image of men and talk about genuine choices.
But they also say in the book that many men today are just 'co-feminists'. They think that equality is good, but they do not want to give up power or stay with the children. That's the 'Tussi' but right - we are far from the goal.
Friederike Knüpling: This is especially true for the older men. For the younger ones, it's difficult to say what they want. Is it really true when they say 'Of course I'm a feminist'. Or if it is just lip service. But I already believe that many men no longer just want to be the family's walking credit card, but they often do not know how to get rid of it.
Well, helping women pay the same salaries as men could help. But they criticize the handling of the 'gender pay gap' in the book.
Theresa Bäuerlein: This is one of the points where women become implausible because they distort the facts. It is said that all women earn basically 22 percent less than men, which is simply not right.
Friederike Knüpling: The 22 percent come from many different factors. We have to look closely at them, but we can not pretend that women are basically the poor victim and discrimination the sole reason. This attitude hampers the way for women.
Theresa Bäuerlein: In the end, women still have a guilty conscience because they have chosen one of those 'soft jobs' that are paid for so poorly. Sometimes I feel like it would have been cooler and more politically correct to study physics than journalism. Many women believe that they have to make a career for the cause of women and return their own wishes. That does not help us.
But is not it 'typical woman' again that we doubt each other? So that you criticize those who want to promote women instead of supporting them?
Friedrike Knüpling: No, let's not say women, leave the poor men alone. We just want to make women aware that they limit themselves when they see themselves as representing the entire sex.
Theresa Bäuerlein: Women should already be aware that there are still problems, but still do not constantly run around the world with a sense of sacrifice. We have to be able to tell whether we are treated badly because we are a woman - or whether it is about me as a person. It can also be that I do not do a job well or the colleagues do not like me.
What kind of debate do you want?
Friedrike Knüpling: I wish that we talk more about inequality in general, regardless of gender. Not every man is boss and not every man deserves to be good. Equal opportunities also have something to do with social background, sector affiliation or age. There is a growing awareness that 'upwards' social mobility is too low to outweigh the 'down'. Above is the glass ceiling? but by no means only for women, and not for all of them. Downstairs again, you have thin ice while the rents rise cheerfully ... The concern that only a lot of women make chic career in this system is too short for me, because of the way work and the money is distributed, does not change much by a few careers. That's what we should talk about, that's what society really does.
